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Job Site Rescue Plans: The difference between life and death (Safety Tales Podcast S3 Episode 9)

Intro Speaker:

Dave and Bacon’s Safety Tales. The only industrial safety podcast that brings you common sense advice on job site safety, standards, regulations, and industry best practices, without putting you to sleep.

Fred Radunzel:

All right. Welcome back to another episode of Dave and Bacon’s Safety Tales, here for another exciting episode. What do you think?

Dave White:

I got a quick reflection. I just came from a funeral and it triggered as I was coming back, and I’m like, “We gotta do a podcast.” So what does that trigger to me? It triggers the whole emotion of why we get up and why we do what we do. Anybody that’s in safety, I’m sure that everybody would stop if there wasn’t a paycheck somehow that showed up in here, but when we’re looking for purpose … this wasn’t occupationally driven funeral, but the long and short of it is that somebody’s not here any longer. I think that’s one of the thought processes that drives everybody that’s in the industry, that people not only return home, but even if they return home with their hearing and their eyesight, and things like that, that life is such a precious thing that a lot of times I just feel that we take for granted. Just wanted to divest that thought and get it out of my head.

Fred Radunzel:

On that note, we’ll get into the usuals. If you need anything from us, reach out to us on any of the social media platforms. We have a website, quadcitysafety.com. We just launched a new boot website at boots.quadcitysafety.com, so we’re pretty excited about that. If you guys would log on there, check it out, and buy a pair of boots if you need some for God’s sakes.

 

We just ran a contest this week in our local newspaper here for the most beat up boots in the Quad Cities. We definitely got a lot of feedback. A lot of people shared their pictures of their duct taped boots or their insole flapping off or the holes, the steel toe part showing through the steel and puncturing through the leather, all of those things.

Dave White:

They’re out there doing something, because you don’t sit there and beat a pair of boots up like some of these ones that we saw. It’s just amazing to see what people … I understand everything costs money, but at some time come, “Let’s boot up guys.”

Fred Radunzel:

Time to get some coming. Today, we’re going to talk a little bit about rescue. It made me think of a story. What age did you learn to swim?

Dave White:

I was so young, I don’t remember.

Fred Radunzel:

I was not one of those kids.

Dave White:

I think I was probably two or three.

Fred Radunzel:

One of those, “Toss Davie in the water and let’s see if he floats.”

Dave White:

Coming from where I did, that’s just how you did it. Every one of my kids, when you threw ’em in there, they came right back up, and paddled over to it, then we started working on distance from there.

Fred Radunzel:

They all swam right away?

Dave White:

Yep.

Fred Radunzel:

Little baby [inaudible 00:03:36]. I’ve got two and four and neither of them swim. I’m almost too late to start pulling any of that shenanigans.

Dave White:

Yeah.

Fred Radunzel:

Got to get them in the water more. But anyways, I was one that didn’t learn to swim probably until 12 or 13. Figured out how to swim at 12 or 13.

Dave White:

Were you like a, “I just didn’t feel comfortable getting that far out, or I’m sinking to the bottom and I’m dead?”

Fred Radunzel:

Pretty much, only because that leads me into my rescue stories. About 10 years old would’ve been time number one. It was out at a lake, I would guess, maybe river, I’m not sure, but sand bottom. So just hanging out and of course my Mother lets me go out there by myself, about 10, even though I don’t know how to swim. I’m just messing around catching a football, throwing it, playing with other kids, then all of a sudden, I just hit a patch of sand that just slid me. Of course you panic, so you start … it was a good 30 seconds or so that I was pretty much under, bobbing up, and going down. I guess my Mom must have been looking out, because she saw my head bobbing up and down. She took off and drug me back in. I got to cough up some water and do all that fun stuff.

 

That was rescue number one.

Dave White:

How many of these do we have?

Fred Radunzel:

Number two. There’s two that I recall. The second one was at a buddy’s house. They had a swimming pool. It was just one of those swimming pools where you got the shallow end and then all of a sudden, a nice slide into the deep end. I just caught the wrong part of that slide and just hit it, and my feet slid right down, and I was under, then try to bobbing.

 

Another kid about my age came and swam over and pushed me back up the slide. He rescued me. Wasn’t prepared. I didn’t have a plan for what was gonna happen when I reached … The lake one, I didn’t know that was coming, so it was really, I guess, for the adults to plan for it.

Dave White:

I know what you’re talking about the in-ground pool. When I had a in ground pool, it was like three-foot in the shallow end, and it was 10 feet in at the deep end, but it went from the shallow to the deep end, literally, in six or seven feet.

Fred Radunzel:

It was like you hit a slide.

Dave White:

Yeah. It was graded down.

Fred Radunzel:

That’s what I did. I wasn’t prepared for the possibility of getting too close to the edge. They probably had one of those ropes with the little buoy things on there that was telling me, “Hey dumb ass, you can’t swim, don’t go this close to it.” I just decided to not pay attention to that, and all of a sudden, I went down.

 

That takes me into what we’re going to talk about today. This will be mostly fall protection related, but having a rescue plan.

Dave White:

Again, you can loosely, how you’re framing this up, you can loosely apply this really to anything you’re doing safety wise. Like you were saying, you threw the rope out there. A visual like, “Hey.” That rope and fall protection can be a passive warning line system. I like how you’re framing it up there Frederick.

Fred Radunzel:

Thought about it a little bit. I guess we’ll start out with, before you identify your hazard … I guess that’s where you need to start really, is identifying hazards. Where are you gonna be … in this case we’re talking about fall protection, so where is the potential to fall?

Dave White:

Yes. People sometimes do that way to loosely, meaning they’re not paying attention to things that are looser than that.  You may get there and you go, “Oh, there’s stairs”, but is there a handrail? “Oh, we’re walking on a surface”, but is there a guardrail. Yeah, we have the surface done, but we’re still bringing materials up through the floor, so we have this four by six whole in the floor that we’re bringing things up.

 

I guess, too often I think people get into that whole … you know that picture where everybody’s seen eating their lunch, dangling their feet off the I beams that they’re doing steel erection with? I think that people get caught up that, “You have to be on top of a wind tour or you have to be doing structural steel” or … I guess that’s where I back up. Sometimes people are like … you’ll go into a facility and you go, “We don’t have any need for fall protection.” You start looking around and you’re like, “How does somebody get into that crane?” They explain it to you and you’re literally like, “You need fall protection.”

 

What I’d challenge people to do is not just … you always gotta approach stuff like, I want to get a second set of eyes. That’s where I think we come in helpful a lot of times. A lot of people have been in a facility for a number of years. You can walk into my house and point out things to me that I would never see, just because I’ve gotten so used to what everything is and where I think everything’s at, and how I think everything uses. You could walk in there and go, “Why’s that there?” I didn’t even know that was there.

Fred Radunzel:

That’s what having small kids, they’ll let you know where the danger’s at in your house. It’s like, “The plugs are filled in with the plug holders, they can’t jam a spoon in there. All right, I got that covered, but I didn’t see that the coffee table has a razor-sharp edge on ahead of it”, until someone sprints into is at five miles an hour, running around the corner, sliding in their footy pajamas.

 

In most cases, like kind of what you were just talking about, say you have a five-foot fall or you have a eight-foot fall, is rescue really something that you need to look at in those circumstances, or is it just a different way to look at it?

Dave White:

I don’t think it hurts to think about it, because let’s say … Today, in the United States, somebody was somewhere on a ladder that thought they had three points of contact that fell. That’s the argument for yeah, somewhere there is, because literally there was a fall hazard or a potential for a fall hazard … And the thing about that guy that’s five foot, when he hits, it’s not good. Reading the statistics that I’ve seen is, I would rather fall from a higher distance than that, because at that point in time, I crack my watermelon and I got blood on my brain and I’m either a vegetable or in a coma. So, sitting there, am I making sense on what I’m saying?

Fred Radunzel:

Yeah.

Dave White:

I think that too many people, again, just going back to the thought that they’re like, “Oh no, we’re not hanging off the side of the building.” That’s not what we’re saying. The walking, working surfaces standard that just came out really changed everything up anyway. You used to be able to approach the edge of a building at six foot. Now, that’s brought way back. It’s back to 20 something that you have to account for.

Fred Radunzel:

Cool. Some of the fall hazards that you can identify, whether or not you need debris nets, or toe boards, or guardrails, if you’re on a roof, or there’s a skylight opening, or floor openings, window openings, anything that you can fall through, you’re working off of a deck, if there’s leading edge, if you’re working in a lift, there’s significant grade drop off when you’re working. You feel like you’re on the ground because I’m on touching the ground, but maybe there’s a big ass hole that’s right there. You’re working near the whole, so you could all of a sudden trip and fall in the whole. There’s still potential for fall, even though you might be working on the same ground that you just drove your truck on 20 minutes ago.

 

You start there. Restraint would be another potential way to look at it. You can actually restrain yourself rather than …

Dave White:

You typically have passive and active systems. A passive system is something that says, “I’m going to keep somebody from getting to the edge. I’m going to put controls to keep them from getting to the edge.” So it could be a warning line, it can be a warning line with a monitor. There’s a lot of ways to go after it. Passive, again, is the classic trying to engineer out the hazard. Restraint would fall in there.

 

Then the active is like, “Nah man, we’ve got to get up to the edge, and might fall over.” When we get to active, then we’re getting theoretically more towards where we’d have to be rescued, but could you still have a need to do a rescue when you have a passive system? Yeah, because the problem with passive systems still are, is a lot of them are still ran by humans. It’s five foot to the edge, but if I use this eight-foot restraint lanyard, I should be fine. No, you’re three foot over the edge. A lot of times, those passive systems still have the ability to fail.

Fred Radunzel:

Yeah, especially if you’re talking a warning line or netting or something like that, that somebody trips off at falls [crosstalk 00:14:29]

Dave White:

Every time I see a warning line, I will see at least one dumb ass outside of the footprint of it without fall protection on. You sit there and you go, “They set it up. That’s what was supposed to be done.” They should’ve had a meeting. They go, “Guys, stay in the box. Stay in here” and they still got out of it.

Fred Radunzel:

When we start talking about a rescue plan, the first thing I got down on my list here, is to figure out who is going to be the rescuer. You’ve got to have a plan when you’re starting to lay that out. It might be, “Well, we have all these systems in place”, but who’s gonna be the person that implements them? Do you have a person onsite? Do you have a team of people, and one of these people is the designated rescuer that’s got all this stuff ready to go? Start with that.

 

Communication. There’s got to be some way that buddy up there takes a fall. How’s he going to get in touch with somebody that says he needs help. Whether that’s someone yelling, he’s got a whistle around his neck, he’s using his cellphone, radio …

Dave White:

Lone worker’s become a big deal. When we talk about lone worker, we’re talking situations where somebody has to go do a task where they have to have fall protection on and they don’t have access to anybody. If they fall, hell, they could have fall protection on, it’d do its job, and then they’d just hang there until they expire because of a cardiac event. There’s harnesses out there now that you go into fall arrest, you pull your handy dandy clip, and it lowers you to the ground. They’ve done a lot of thoughts. There’s pass devices. There’s devices that they’ll put on people that are lone workers to radio people if somebody goes down.

 

Communication is definitely I would say … It’s a two channel because the communication has to be between the worker and somebody that’s managing the process, and then Between the manager of the process and first responder. Anytime you have an accident, and I’ll say this time and time again, I don’t know how many stories where somebody falls, everybody looks at him and goes, “Man, it wasn’t that far. You all right?” Like, “Yeah man, I’ll be fine.” He goes home and dies in his sleep because of something. It happens all the time. Having the first responders check you out is probably not a bad thing to … Make me feel better.

Fred Radunzel:

Especially if there’s all kinds of liability and all that fun stuff. Communication with the person who’s the authorized rescuer or whoever your buddy is that’s helping, make sure someone can get you help. You’re up there working. It could be that somebody’s only 100 feet away, so they feel like you guys are still a team, but if you don’t realize for 10 minutes that somebody took a fall and they’re hanging there. And that person needs to contact with your first aid.

Dave White:

It’s classic like confined space entry is. You got your person that enters, and then your person that monitors, but if the person that enters falls, the person that monitors needs to talk to somebody. There’s sometimes a line of communication there is, “Hey, down here and I need to get out of here.” Monitor goes, “Okay, I’m getting you out of there.” You may need … There’s other people that are gonna have to be involved.

Fred Radunzel:

It happens all the time. Obviously training takes care of a lot of it, but someone’s in a confined space, and then buddy’s like, “Oh he just went down. I’m going in to get him” and then all of a sudden, he goes down too ’cause of whatever was in the hole.

 

Once emergency responders have been contacted, we got to figure out what kind of equipment that we have on hand. Hopefully, trainings went by for that. I’m looking at the safety of the person that’s going in to do the rescue. The example we just gave was in a confined space. We got to make sure that the person that’s going to do the rescuing is also going to be safe. So now you got two people that are down in the hole.

Dave White:

When you get into rescue, some of the classic fall protection things go out the windows when you start looking at anchor points and stuff like that, because at that point time is money. You’re always up against the clock.

Fred Radunzel:

Then we gotta start looking at how will the rescuer get to the person that fell. Are we going to use a rescue ladder? Does somebody need keys to get to a building or a roof to where they’re at? Does someone have the ability to pull, the strength maybe, to pull this person out from the rescue system that you have in. Obviously, there’s a lot of equipment now that makes it so you don’t have to be as strong, but a lot of companies I’m sure are still using systems that requires a significant amount of strength to pull somebody up.

Dave White:

There’s no doubt about it. You don’t want it to look like a bad game of tug of war when you’re trying to get somebody out of … and it could be multiple people. Meaning, if you have a rescuer that’s going in after a confined space, they may both be off the same line. Is that system ready to handle that much weight?

Fred Radunzel:

The man basket that you’re sending somebody over to maybe grab somebody. It’s the same thing.

Dave White:

There’s another thing. When somebody’s in there, are they injured? If they are injured, ’cause you sit there and see … some of the more complicated ones that I’ve seen is when people get … they’ll have a rescue plan for somebody gets hurt up tower in a wind tower. Then you’re sitting there going, “We gotta get this guy on a spine board. We have to move him around the nacelle”, which is the big Winnebago thing that sits up on top of the stick. They gotta move him around and then they gotta put him either out the main whole, they’re probably not going to do that, they’re probably gonna take him down through the tower, and it’s 300 feet. It’s not just, “You get that side, and I’ll get that side, and we’ll carry him.” It’s not like carrying your buddy off the field, or the basketball court. Whoops, you hurt your leg. Grab my shoulder, grab his shoulder, and we’ll get you off here.

Fred Radunzel:

A lot of companies will still call the fire department as their rescue plan. If that was your plan, you better have a process. How quick can they get here? Are we going to be able to direct them to where this person’s at in the event of a fall. You better have some trauma straps or something like that to make them ready. Obviously, that’s not best-case scenario.

Dave White:

That observation that you said there is pretty key also. You can have the fire department come out and most of them don’t care. They’ll come out and want to see it, so that when they get that call, somebody has an idea, like you say, let’s say the building we’re in right now is 40,000 square foot, so there’s a lot of different places that I can be.

 

Realistically, if I want my response time to be well under 10 minutes, somewhere around five-ish would be awesome. I can walk around here for five minutes trying to figure out what’s going on. Having an understanding of what the structure looks like, or what’s in the structure.

Fred Radunzel:

What equipment is needed to ensure proper response time to minimize the trauma? That could be a stretcher. You get a guy down, he was hanging up there for 10 minutes, he gon’ be hurting when he gets down. You might need some first aid for him. If he took a fall, he could’ve swung and hit something. You might need, as simple as ice and bandages, all the way up to something for significant trauma.

 

One other thing they got down here, is how will others be protected? It could be in an area where you need to direct traffic away so that your help can get there. Having somebody blocked off so that no one gets underneath where this guys at. Setting up barriers. Let’s see here.

 

One thing I hadn’t really thought about too was …

Dave White:

You got a couple other ones in there. Weather conditions. A is not equal to B. Proximity to the hospital is … if you’ve got something where you have the potential for a cardiac event, maybe a defibrillator onsite’s not a bad thing to have while you’re waiting for some level of response. We continue to work in a very diverse work environment. My name’s David, they call me Daveed. I only know that just because I took Spanish in high school, but if we’re sitting there talking about something’s going wrong, I’m pretty sure that I’m not gonna understand what they’re saying. It’s nothing other than they don’t speak English, I don’t speak Spanish, so we have language barrier.

Fred Radunzel:

Especially in a panic situation.

Dave White:

No doubt about it.

Fred Radunzel:

[crosstalk 00:24:53] slow down and pointing to things.

Dave White:

Everybody’s freaking out. We’re not doing the infant sign language thing.

Fred Radunzel:

Maybe I know el bano to get me to the toilet, but other than that, I don’t know a lot.

Dave White:

That’s probably the only emergency that we’re going to solve together.

Fred Radunzel:

One thing, you brought weather. I think that’s a major, super important one. If you’re in snow, that’s gonna completely change a rescue situation, or even rain. You’re up there in rain, that’s going to affect grip, if you have to grab and pull on a rope. You’re going to be slipping and sliding if you’re on a platform and you don’t have a toe board to push up against, or something like that. You really probably need to think about that. Is that a daily assessment? How do you analyze a rescue plan? How often do you need to look at it? You just have those [crosstalk 00:25:47]. If it’s raining, here’s what you gotta do.

Dave White:

To me, when you look at it, you have to look at it is I’m either in an industrial situation or I’m a construction guy. An industrial guy, as long as you’re going back in there and making sure anytime something in the plant changes, that you look at that and wonder how it affects any program that you have, you’re fine.

 

When you start talking about a construction site, a construction site changes every day. They’re building a Costco up the street. I’ve been watching that. I was watching them move dirt, and move dirt, and move dirt. Then all of a sudden, I came by and the iron workers had showed up and start putting the roofing system in. It’s literally like, “That happened really quick.”

 

What happened yesterday is not the same as today. In that case, sometimes a JLG’s good enough, but if you don’t have it there, and they start without it, somebody falls, pretty sure sunbelt’s not gonna get it over there fast enough to do what you need.

Fred Radunzel:

Or you were outside today, and tomorrow you’re now inside because there’s a structure there that wasn’t there yesterday. You might not be able to access it with that piece of equipment.

Dave White:

Yeah. It’s moved around. That’s what’s hard about construction to me. When you talk about accident prevention as well as rescue is, everything is so dynamic. It’s constantly changing.

Fred Radunzel:

That leads in to the last little bullet point I had, which is training. None of this is gonna make any sense to anybody, it’s not going to work if you don’t have the employees and the people involved trained on how it’s going to work. That’s something you’re gonna have to …

Dave White:

Absolutely. You can write the best safety plan in the planet. You can read through it and you’re like, “Man this addresses everything”, but nobody in the building knows shit about it.

Fred Radunzel:

It’s like, “Dave, Fred just took a fall over there. Hang on just a second, I gotta go run and grab the book, let me read [crosstalk 00:28:06].

Dave White:

Start on page 84. Flip to page 84.

Fred Radunzel:

Start on page 84. Nah man, I’m cutting him down. I got my knife on. I gotta get him down. There’s no time for that. That will wrap that up. Anything else you got to say on rescue?

Dave White:

Anything that I can say on rescue? It’s overlooked constantly.

Fred Radunzel:

And it’s life or death.

Dave White:

Yeah. It’s literally worth paying attention to. I like to always frame it up, you can care about safety because of the money, or you can care about safety because of the people. In both situations, it’s a really bad outcome. If you’re not able to rescue somebody, they expire, it’s $1.4 million. So you can either be the guy chooses to look at it, “$1.4 million” or you can be able to look at it and go, “Bill’s dead.” It’s just the outcome of it. Some of the topics that we talk about, yeah you may end up with an eye or a finger or something like that, which those suck too, but those also cost money, but they’re not as, I don’t think they’re as catastrophic. I don’t think, just going back to the fact that I came from a funeral is probably why I’m more …

Fred Radunzel:

If you guys need any help with any of your … with rescue plan or getting you in touch with somebody that can help you write it, or get you examples of what a rescue plan might look like, feel free to reach out to us. We’ll get you in contact with the right people if we can’t help you ourselves.

Dave White:

There’s us and manufacturers. We have a ton of manufacturers that are dying to come help you guys with this stuff. The only reason you don’t have it, is because you haven’t asked for it.

Fred Radunzel:

Yep. We’ll put a bow on that one and we’ll move onto ‘Dumbass of the Week’ for this week.

Intro Speaker:

It’s the dumb ass of the week.

Fred Radunzel:

Seen this guy multiple times. A lot of times in construction, a lot of times where they don’t think. They’re not using fall protection very often, but anything is a tie off point guy. That’s the guy that will tie off to a fixed ladder, or tie off to a light fixture, or a temporary wall that’s got two by fours that are hanging up.

Dave White:

Water pipe.

Fred Radunzel:

Water pipes, electrical pipes.

Dave White:

Conduit.

Fred Radunzel:

Conduit, railings. I’ve seen it where they had a tie off point where it was almost like something they should’ve been hanging wind chimes in the corner of their room. It was coming out of drywall, and it’s just a little eye hook, and they had a retractable tied off to it, which …

Dave White:

Ignorance is not bad. That’s the other thing that we have to think about in safety. It’s okay to ask a question, and we’ve got to be able to receive them without being really heinous. Sometimes it’s like, “No you dumb ass.” I had somebody call, “Hey, we’re on the JLG and we want to get out of it. We wonder if it’s okay if we use a rebar hook and clipped in to the top part of the guardrail system on the JLG?” I guess I could get where they think it’s okay, but it’s like, “No. Don’t do that.”

Fred Radunzel:

It’s like, “What happens?”

Dave White:

I mean, I’ll sit there and go as much as anybody, I go, “Something’s probably better than nothing if you’re just going to do it anyway.” I want to believe that our society is getting past that.

Fred Radunzel:

So, this guy needs a buddy. The guy that ties off to all these things needs a buddy, needs somebody watching him that just says, “Hey man, don’t tie off there. We have an opportunity to tie off here”, or “We can get your butt on the ground by doing something this way.”

Dave White:

It’s also basic training stuff. A lot of times when I’m just doing refresher classes or whatever, I’ll go, “Look at it and ask yourself, can I hang a pickup truck from it?”

Fred Radunzel:

Right. Probably can’t hang a pickup truck from that two by four wall that’s built over there that you have a [crosstalk 00:32:30].

Dave White:

It’d be some kind of crazy ass wood that we need to start building houses out of.

Fred Radunzel:

Let’s go on to some questions from the ole email box today. If you guys have any question, please hit us up. I’m Fred@quadcitysafety.com. Let us know. Number one, can we wrap a beam strap around a beam multiple times before tying off to it?

Dave White:

Absolutely. I think that that was one that we encountered this week, somebody asking. A lot of times what will happen is they’re like, “I got this beam strap” and usually their six foot’s probably the classic size, and they’ll have all this extra sitting there and they’re like, don’t know what to do with it. The main thing to do when you install one correctly is, you’ll usually have a big D and a little d. Little d is going to go through the big D. Orient that little d in the middle of whatever you’re trying to wrap it around.

Fred Radunzel:

[inaudible 00:33:38] little d through a loop, right?

Dave White:

Could, could, but you need to pass back through that. You don’t want to sit there and take it around once and just kind of string it left or right of where it is. You want it in that direct circle coming back through. Little d comes through big D first time. Little d comes back through big D second time. When you stress that anchor point, it comes down to a Y. Yes, you absolutely should wrap them about as tight as you can get. It’s never gonna be perfect. You may have a little tail coming out a couple inches, that’s gonna be best practice.

Fred Radunzel:

You don’t want to have a six-foot strap that you wrap around once, you tie it through, and now all of a sudden, you’re hanging down four feet.

Dave White:

Preferably not.

Fred Radunzel:

For one thing, you’re going to have to look at how high you are, ’cause that’s going to change your tie off point.

Dave White:

Typically, the biggest problem a lot of times is getting an anchor point that’s high enough. Meaning, it’s above the Dorsal D. We’re always looking for that stuff. Whether it’s that case or just the fact that it’s going to work better when it’s wrapped.

Fred Radunzel:

Number two, what is the difference between a retractable and a wench on separate legs of a tripod?

Dave White:

Depends on what you got. So you said a retractable and a wench. The retractable often in a confine space like on a tripod will be called a three way. It’s kind of misinformation, because it’s not really three ways. That is your fall protection. If you have a wench off of the second leg, that theoretically is what you’re using to move man and tool.

 

If you have both of those, that would be a perfect case where, “I’ve got a manhole. We’ve got to go down 15 feet. There’s no ladder in.” In that situation, we have to lower the guy. You have to have a man rated wench, but since you can also fall, you have the three-way, or the rescue retractable, they call them a lot of different things, that you’re going to use in your fall protection.

 

In the case of going down, that would be one where you could use it, theoretically, you would use the three-way as your fall protection and the wench to physically lower you. It’s a misconception that you can use the three way devices to lower a person into a confined space. They are not built to do that.

Fred Radunzel:

Number three, how do I determine what size of fire extinguisher I need?

Dave White:

How big’s your fire? What is your fire? Everybody’s seen ABC. All fires are not created equal. If you’re frying bacon, and all of a sudden you have a grease fire, and you throw a big cup of water on it, shit’s gonna get real. Same reason that you need to really know what kind of fire you’re trying to put out. It’s amazing some of the … even in industrial applications, I’ve been to places where they have to fight it with certain chemicals. You can’t even use a regular fire extinguisher or anything on it, ’cause that’s just not how it works. It’s a chemical reaction or something versus what it is.

 

The first thing is making sure, typically in most situation, an ABC. They’ll come in different sizes so, realistically, if I’m worried about having … let’s go with just the kitchen fire. If I’m sitting there looking at a kitchen fire, I probably don’t need a 10 pound ABC fire extinguisher to do that, ’cause not a lot of space. Let’s say that I have some oily waste and I’ve done a piss poor job of getting rid of it, and it’s in a corner of my building and I keep fire extinguishers there. Keeping a two and half pound or maybe a five pound is not gonna be enough to do what you need to do.

 

It can be the proximity to it. Maybe a five pounder’s good enough to start with, because when you start thinking about it, you gotta move around with these things. The heavier you get … if you have, let’s say a smaller female that’s trying to react to it, and all of a sudden, she’s got a larger fire extinguisher, that’s gonna be harder for her to deal with than something that’s smaller.

Fred Radunzel:

We don’t sell a lot of fire extinguishers for some reason, but is that something that you have a hazard analysis done or something [inaudible 00:39:06] companies that really does a lot with fire prevention or …

Dave White:

They’re gonna come around and take a look at what you’re doing. Ask you what you’re trying to put out. They can even do training. A lot of people that … fire service guys, our buddies over at Trial State Fire across the river, they’re really into this. Rob Miller, I talk to him all the time, he does a lot of training with it. Putting out fire, there’s a little bit of art to it, how you attack a fire.

 

The classic example is you see people a lot of times, the water arching into the fire. That’s not necessarily the kind of fires we’re trying to put out. We’re going to attack them a little bit differently. Having somebody spend two or three minutes training on pointing, not towards the top of the fire, but really into the gut of it, and they actually even have little machines that help you measure that somebody’s doing it right.

Fred Radunzel:

Cool, that’ll wrap that up. Something I was going to talk about, that I saw a story sometime this week that was pretty interesting to me. First off, what do you classify as streaker?

Dave White:

A streaker?

Fred Radunzel:

A streaker. Yeah.

Dave White:

Frank the tank.

Fred Radunzel:

Someone that’s naked, right?

Dave White:

To me, a streaker has to be at least in their underwear of butt naked with a mask.

Fred Radunzel:

Yeah. This guy in Colorado this week, baseball game, he was running across the field, but we was fully clothed. People were calling him a streaker. I saw that, I was like, “He’s got all his clothes on, he’s just an asshole running on the field, he’s not really a streaker.” You saw that where the guy went up into the … he made it through the stands, guy climbed up the fence, made it about two steps and then fuck, Goldberg came and just speared his ass down about six steps. This will tell me a lot about our differences. What was your thought when you saw that happen?

Dave White:

Why didn’t they let him get away?

Fred Radunzel:

About the guy? Okay. My thought is, the guy in the stands that hit him, what an asshole. It’s us versus them. He made it off the field.

Dave White:

Do I like laws and the rule of law, yeah, but I’m gonna cheer for the guy to get away with something that’s funny. The kid that streaks across the high school football field, jumps the fence, and there’s a pickup truck that immediately speeds away with license plates on that they later go get him, but you …

Fred Radunzel:

I’m not running out there to tackle him myself. That’s security job. I want to see the dynamic. He’s not really hurting anybody. I thought you’d be like, “Good for the guy laying his ass out in the stands” for some reason.

Dave White:

No, I want to see that guy succeed, ’cause they’re going to catch him.

Fred Radunzel:

He didn’t have a mask on number one. You see what he looks like. They’re going to eventually get him. I’ve seen, there was a soccer one that I watched where the guy ran all the way across the field. He stiff arms all the security guys makes it and he reaches out and they drop a flag down, he climbed the flag up in the stands, and the pull him out of there, and he ran up into the stands. They were really helping him out. It’s teamwork. This kid, man, what a dick. Just lays him out. Then he went down and picked up his hat. He was about my size. He didn’t look like he was all that, but he caught the guy by surprise I think, ’cause you figure if I’m getting tackled it’s gonna be on the field, I made it to the stands, I’m home. I made it home. Then all of a sudden, someone blindsides you from the stands. What an asshole.

 

That’s it. That’s all I got for this week. Appreciate everyone listening. We’re here most of the way through season three, so we’ve got some momentum. I think Dave and I got some confidence doing this, so we’d love to hear from you if you got any topics that you’d love for us to hit. We’re always looking for new topics, new things to talk about, recommended guests, anybody you’d like us to talk to, or any topics to broach. Please reach out. Don’t be strangers. Don’t feel like we’re not some national podcast that’s got millions of listeners that your email’s gonna get lost in the box, so please reach out to us if you got any questions. We want to help you out, make it home safe, continue the conversation on safety. We’ll be back next week.

Dave White:

If you think OSHA is city in Wisconsin, you’re probably mistaken.

Fred Radunzel:

For sure. Quadcitysafety.com. Any of our social media, reach out. We’ll be back next week with another exciting episode. Safety’s got no quitting time. Thank you.

Intro Speaker:

Thanks for listening in to Dave and Bacon’s Safety Tales, brought to you by Quad City Safety. Send us your questions on Facebook, Linkedin, or Twitter @quadcitysafety #safetytales, or email them to Fred@quadcitysafety.com. He’s the guy keeping this mess of a show in line. If you like the show, please rate and review us on iTunes. It’s a kick ass way to show that you care about safety.

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